• healthanddwellness

#014 Spring into Home Garden to Table with Shana Tatum



Unknown Speaker 0:13

Welcome to the health and wellness podcast.


Unknown Speaker 0:16

I'm Sheri Davidson.


Unknown Speaker 0:17

And I'm Candace Rodgers. This is our quaint, warm space, where we will share our passion for wellbeing and explore everyday living and health, wellness and design to help you thrive in your life.


Unknown Speaker 0:41

Welcome to the health and wellness podcast. I'm Sheri Davidson, acupuncturist, health and wellness coach and former interior designer.


Unknown Speaker 0:48

And I'm Candace Rogers interior designer, and I'm a wellness designer. And today we have Shawna Tatum in our studio, and she's here to talk about nutrition and home gardens. Yay. Yay.


Unknown Speaker 1:02

A little bit about Shawna. Shawna is a registered dietician nutritionist that follows a personalized functional nutrition approach. Finding wellness through a power through the power of food, balanced with good sleep, daily movement, stress reduction and meaningful relationships. She deeply believes optimal wellness and vitality can be realized. She also utilizes testing to detect nutrition, nutrient deficiencies, and along with her clients, develops a targeted plan for your health goals. Through this whole health centered approach, her hope is to empower clients to step into and find their own health, healthy balance. She is a member of the dieticians and integrative and functional medicine practice group and of the institution, the Institute of functional medicine. Hi, Shawna. Hi. Hey, Shauna,


Unknown Speaker 1:53

thank you so much for having me.


Unknown Speaker 1:55

And we're excited to have you here to talk more about nutrition, your passion for gardening and also cooking you love to cook


Unknown Speaker 2:02

Yes. Yeah, very much.


Unknown Speaker 2:04

Yeah. And we this this was actually requested by a listener. I don't know if you knew that.


Unknown Speaker 2:10

I don't think I didn't know that. Yeah, that's really cool.


Unknown Speaker 2:12

Yeah, great. This topic was requested. And we thought you'd be a


Unknown Speaker 2:19

great person. Well, thank you. listener, I appreciate it.


Unknown Speaker 2:22

Well, and to you know, COVID has really been shining a spotlight on our health these days, and our immune health especially. And we know how important diet is for immune health. Also, during the pandemic, a lot of people have been growing their own foods, and they've been cooking a lot more. Thank goodness. So we thought we'd just bring it all together in this podcast, and yeah, welcome, we lucky to have Thank you.


Unknown Speaker 2:51

Yeah. And just recently, I found out that Shauna is a former interior designer. So we're going to talk a little bit more about that today. So I had no idea until recently, we were in this networking meeting together. Shawna accidentally said that she was a licensed designer. And I was like, What? I didn't really think anything about it. And then she said, Well, I used to be a designer, and I like, wait, what I thought about her. So I think that's really cool. I had no idea. It was a great part of my life. You know, when in that meeting, we were I was sharing about what I was doing. And I just said, registered designer instead of registered


Unknown Speaker 3:30

dietician. Yeah. And I feel a part of you. So it is a part of me, I'm married to an architect. I know that either. So part of that will always be there. Just this sensitivity to design and my environment. And understanding all of those principles, I


Unknown Speaker 3:48

think will be something that's just Well, it makes a lot more sense now, especially just listening to you at some of these meetings when you're talking now. It just all made sense that you used to be an interior designer.


Unknown Speaker 4:00

Well, and I think that was when we first met. We had that connection as


Unknown Speaker 4:04

well. I'm sorry to talking about all these different people we knew and even I think University of Houston, right? Is that where you went to school?


Unknown Speaker 4:10

You went to age? And you know, Jackie,


Unknown Speaker 4:13

you know Jackie Berry. Yeah, she was. She was on? Yes. She was a former guest as well. And you know, PDR


Unknown Speaker 4:20

Yes. Yeah.


Unknown Speaker 4:21

Who did what Who did you work for?


Unknown Speaker 4:22

Well, I started out with Trammell crow company. So I was on the developers. That's right. Okay. Yeah. And then I moved into more facilities. Like facilities management. Yeah, I worked for bankunited Okay, retail banks and corporate offices. And then I moved to work with for DuPont. Okay, and some marketing Oh, for them of some of their products. So yeah, it was a great career. I really enjoyed


Unknown Speaker 4:50

awesome. I have a friend she was a really good friend of mine. She's also a former interior designer and then she went into facilities. So yeah, it's a great, that's a great career for interior designers to, you know, people. They don't think about that as a career, but they do hire a lot of designers for that


Unknown Speaker 5:09

all those restack writing standard, sometimes was kind of boring. Yeah. But then other days were not. Yeah, I mean, any job, I


Unknown Speaker 5:18

think so how did you go from that to then being a to become a nutritionist


Unknown Speaker 5:24

a great path, I think I was enjoying design. And we decided to have our first baby. And when Reed was born at that time, when I was working upon I was still traveling. And so at first it was okay, you know, to be gone son, it was Tom with the grandparents that he could spend. But then we had a second baby. And I was still traveling, and I didn't like that. So I actually went part time after he was born, but I was still traveling. And so we had our third son, and I just said, I missed these boys too much. So I stopped working after James was about a year old, okay. And I was a stay at home mom, it was the greatest job in the world. I left these boys. They wore me out,


Unknown Speaker 6:11

boys.


Unknown Speaker 6:12

And so somewhere in that timeline of being a mom, I got an autoimmune condition. And so I didn't after it was it was psoriasis, okay, and kind of starting the beginnings of psoriatic arthritis, I'm well, and you know, in my late 30s, and billing, not feeling so good. And so they were looking at some medications that were pretty strong to help suppress it, and didn't really want to do that. So I started looking at food and my diet, and cleaning that up doing some elimination diets and started feeling a little bit better. And then I started tuning in my movement, you know, my act, physical activity. And then I started getting a little bit better, and my sleep got better. And when I pulled in meditation, Uh huh. And I really calmed my stress response, and I really let my body rest, then everything just kind of click Wow. And my psoriasis was just in my face. So it was a glaring to me problem that I ended to address. But there were also some emotional components to which there always are. And so some time reflecting on all of that, and and then once all that started improving, I was thinking what in the world has just happened to my body, and I wanted to learn about it. So went back to school, I went to HCC and took a anatomy and physiology class, and I loved it.


Unknown Speaker 7:44

I love Houston. Community College is such a great school,


Unknown Speaker 7:47

I had some wonderful professors. And so then I just kept going, and then it was chemistry. And then it was like, this is a new career. Wow.


Unknown Speaker 7:55

Yes.


Unknown Speaker 7:57

So I did, and I loved it. And I knew that I wanted to be able to teach people that, you know, the power of the body is really strong, you can learn how to tune in, and start to really fine tune those things in your life, including diet. And so I now have my own practice and offer that service for other people.


Unknown Speaker 8:19

That's amazing. That really is amazing. And I totally believe that I think that's kind of how I met Sherry, was because I was having a lot of migraine headaches, and I didn't want to be on medication anymore. And I had started acupuncture in Atlanta. And then when I moved here to Houston, I wanted to continue and I just didn't want to be on that cycle. Like you said, I had already kind of figured out that I was allergic, you know, to certain foods, dairy was a big one. But then just you know, trying to do things to get ahead of it, you know, instead of just like treating the problem with medication. And then I felt like, you know, the medications have other things that side effects and things that happened to you. And I actually felt like I was getting more headaches with the medication, like I was having more frequent headaches. But it's interesting that you say that, and you were able to figure out, because you you have beautiful skin. I mean, you're you're really, really do and so just figuring that out and getting in tune with your body. That's amazing.


Unknown Speaker 9:19

And the acupuncture probably also, you know, treated other parts of you that you may not even know or Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 9:26

I say that all the time. I had a guy come in one day and I was doing knee pain. He came in I guess we did like maybe three or four sessions. And then he came in He's like, You know what? I didn't tell you this, but I was having headaches, and I haven't had them since I've been doing acupuncture. Wow. Yeah. And so it's I guess you do treat this whole system. And when you start treating a part you end up treating the whole. And then so when people ask me, they'll say what kind of results should I see? And I'm like, well, it just depends. I said pay attention to everything. And I tell them that story because it's like this person never even thought to tell me about their headaches right? So yeah,


Unknown Speaker 10:00

and they didn't even they noticed that when they weren't there any other they noticed, they were like, wow, this really improved. And I totally believe that what you eat, what you put in your body makes a huge difference in just your mood, your energy levels like that, like it can cause like, for me, it was causing headaches. And I had no idea that that was part of the allergy was the headaches and all the other things. You know, like the actual allergy, you think food allergies, you always think your throat closes up or you get hives or immediately immediate reaction. But this this would literally be like the next day or two days later that I would start feeling bad. And I mean, I had one doctor that that gave me really a high strong pain medication. And they were like, take this and I'm like, I'm not I'm not taking that good. I'm not gonna take it, I'd never took it, I still had that whole prescription. And I never took it because I'm like, of course, I'm not going to have a headache because I'm going to be knocked out cold.


Unknown Speaker 11:04

Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 11:05

I mean, she just literally was like, here, this is what you have migraines. Here's this strong, you know, pain medication, take this. And, you know, I believe if you have an emergency or something like that, I need to take it, that's a different story. But that to me was not the way to treat my


Unknown Speaker 11:20

headache. Well, there are some amazing medications out there that really are life saving Oh of yours. And yes, and even long term for PS that need to be on it. But there's so many lifestyle things that we can do that really can improve our health, when people forget that what's on the end of your fork is really inflammation that's directing the cells to do something, it's either going to make a cell membrane, or it's going to make a sex hormone, or it's going to repair some of the cells and intestinal tract. You know, it has information, all chemistry Yeah. And and if we're just eating, which it happens, food is more than just information, its culture and tradition and emotions, right connection, which is all beautiful. I want us to have all of that. And I want you to remember that it's doing all these things.


Unknown Speaker 12:15

For you. Yeah, that's a good way to put it, that's a really good way to put it.


Unknown Speaker 12:20

I think it's one I always say, you know, I do general like Chinese medicine, diet, stuff. And we talk in terms of like heat and cold and but I tell people all the time and like food is one way that you can take care of yourself every single day. You know, your power, it's all in your power every single day, you know, and I think people just they don't see it as that they don't see it as information. They don't they don't see it as medicine. They just see it as the enjoyment or the entertainment or the cultural part of it. But there are a lot of cultures too, that are focused. I mean, they're there when you get to the essence of what they eat is very, I think healthy, you know, like, like, it's the processed foods. It's all the it's all that is really true. Yeah, it's it's all the new way. I don't know when to I don't know what the timeline is on. That was 19.


Unknown Speaker 13:15

Like 40


Unknown Speaker 13:17

It's been a long time. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that, you know, if people could just take that piece out, they're doing a lot huge step for their health. Yeah, definitely hear that. Yeah. So how long you've been doing it now?


Unknown Speaker 13:31

This is my third year.


Unknown Speaker 13:33

So it's still pretty Wow. Yeah. But


Unknown Speaker 13:36

I I had the honor of having my clinical rotation at bin top hospital, and some amazing practitioners there. But so much suffering in the past. And yeah, so much suffering. I mean, my first day, I saw a gunshot wound, you know,


Unknown Speaker 13:55

so maybe you tell because I know a lot of people aren't from Houston that listen to this podcast. So maybe it's been taught as a


Unknown Speaker 14:01

trauma Hospital, one county hospital, huge and just amazing teaching hospital. I saw every outcome for chronic disease there. Well, so it really planted in my mind firmly what poor lifestyle looks like, and and how our conventional medical system treats it. And so that was really foundational for me. I also learned at that time that that was not a place that I felt like I could serve that it was because of the acute care that it's providing. I really wanted to be more on the prevention and and the strategies following a functional medicine model are over time. You know, that whole saying it's not it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Yeah, that we are looking for this health span. You know, the whole field of longevity research that's opened up, we're looking to get to now 95 and just be rocking it not not crippled in and facing an amputation because we have uncontrolled diabetes, it's really enjoying life. And so it takes time, you know, every decision you make about what you're eating and how you're sleeping and how you're managing your stress, even though they're small decisions in the moment, they add up. And so I thought I could work clinical for a while, because we have three children, and we're saving for college. And I went back to college. And so I thought, whoa, we need to, you know, have some money coming in. But it was it was just too difficult for me to be in that environment that was so conventional and acute care. I wanted prevention. So, so this has been a good place, and I just don't ride in prevention spine.


Unknown Speaker 15:51

I like that side as well. I, I've gone through that a little obviously, I wasn't in trauma, but I've gone through that with my practice. And I really find that I love talking about prevention. And that is one of the reasons why I did the health coaching. And it's like, if, you know, in Chinese medicine in the talk a long time ago, the doctor didn't get paid if the patient was sick. Yeah, so it was completely it was the officer and I've always remembered that saying, like, that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to help people stay healthy and not treat I mean, obviously, be very thankful we have the medicine that we have, because I'm a big fan of Western medicine. But every day care is not it's, you know,


Unknown Speaker 16:35

yeah. And it it straight work together the preventive part. And then if you do need, you know, medication to control something, I think they can all work together. I


Unknown Speaker 16:44

think we're going that direction. Yeah, I think especially since COVID. It's another global. Are you familiar with the global wellness Institute?


Unknown Speaker 16:51

Now? I


Unknown Speaker 16:52

love them. Okay, I'm a huge fan of them. They have trends for like 2020 2021. And the convergence of Western and Eastern medicine is happening. I mean, I'm sorry, Western and wellness. Yeah, yeah. conventional medicine and wellness is converging. And they're going to be instead of, you know, wellness was always seen as Hawaii. But that's not the case anymore since COVID. And they're predicting that so that'll be fun for our business. That has been fantastic.


Unknown Speaker 17:23

Because the whole shift of language is been around prevention. Yes. And you know, it started out of just wash your hands more and, and social distance. But then people really started saying about, oh, well, I'm forced to be at home. So I'll cook at home. And they started enjoying what they're cooking and, and even looking at trician from taking vitamin C and vitamin D, I mean, just normal average, people started having these conversations, they didn't really think about it before. So that has definitely been a welcome shift.


Unknown Speaker 17:58

Yeah, for sure. So what have you seen since COVID? And like your patients, or like, what impact has that had?


Unknown Speaker 18:06

Yeah, to to? Well, probably three things really. The first one is about immune health people just being so focused, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Well, you know, have half your plate, be vegetables, eat at home, you know, have just have good Whole Foods. So immune support has been a big thing. The second one really has been weight loss. I've had more weight loss patients interest last year than I ever had.


Unknown Speaker 18:31

Do you think that's because people are at home? And they like I've gained


Unknown Speaker 18:35

weight?


Unknown Speaker 18:36

Or is it been? Is it because we are gaining weight? Since COVID? Are there they have the time maybe to focus on it? Or I


Unknown Speaker 18:43

don't know, for me, I know me and a lot of my friends we have we laugh about that we've put on pounds. I've worked a COVID 50. And we're not we're not working out like we were i think that's that's the number one thing, but I think so


Unknown Speaker 18:55

too, I think is that you have this change in your routine. It's stressful. Yeah. And stress and stress eating and emotional eating has been something that people do. I mean, I do it too. And I really did it when it first started. Yeah. Stress drinking. Yeah, no alcohol sales has really gone up,


Unknown Speaker 19:15

fortunately,


Unknown Speaker 19:17

and then gyms had been closed. And so if they were in a routine of going to the gym, then figuring out a way to work out in the driveway or watch a video, you know, there's only so much behavior change at once that someone can take on Yeah, and so all of those things became different. I have heard though my patients reporting better sleep because of the you know, commute times are being reduced if they're working from home that that they can sleep a little bit later maybe then they used to not all people but yeah, so those things have been good. And then the whole telehealth platform, okay, being able to see my patients via telehealth has been has been good.


Unknown Speaker 19:57

Yeah, that is that I do like That because it seemed like people kind of weren't into the telehealth before this, like it was out there. But people still weren't really into it. And then it forced people to do it. And now people really like it. It's convenient. It's so convenient. Have you done one yet? I've done another kind of telehealth with my therapist, but I haven't done it with like a medical doctor.


Unknown Speaker 20:20

I have not had a visit. But I have done Yes. visits. Yeah. And it's the health coaching. Yeah, I think it's, I know when this first started, there was a lot of talk with telehealth and acupuncture is doing acupressure or teaching acupressure, which I think is good. But to me, that's just not the same. It's just not the same. I have to do it in person. So but but I haven't actually had a visit.


Unknown Speaker 20:48

But I think especially First there are certain things that you could certainly prescribe things or treat people by just talking to them. And you know, maybe then you don't have those long waiting. Yeah, yeah, it is convenient. It's very convenient. So I think that part is,


Unknown Speaker 21:06

too, especially for elderly people who can travel.


Unknown Speaker 21:10

Yeah, it's been really good. But ma my parents, it's so funny. My dad, they wanted to do like a telehealth visit with my dad. And he was like, I don't do that. And I'm like, well, Dad, why don't you try it? You know, you don't have to go to the office. You don't have to. But for them, it just it made them nervous that whole you know, they didn't know how to say they don't understand it. So I think my dad did finally do it that no good liked it. So stuff like that is but I like that that part of technology, especially with the health care has has increased with


Unknown Speaker 21:42

benefits to just expanding access. Yeah, more rural communities where they may not have a practitioner that now can provide telehealth services. Yeah, it's really going to be good. I think going forward.


Unknown Speaker 21:54

I think so. Yeah, totally. Well, let's talk about immune health and nutrition. Because when I think of immune health, I think diet. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's it, there's a lot of things you have to do like sleeping well, and but diets a huge piece of that. So my recommendations that


Unknown Speaker 22:12

have just kind of been since it started is make sure you get adequate protein, because all of our white blood cells require protein. And what is that and


Unknown Speaker 22:20

there's some confusion about protein about how much protein?


Unknown Speaker 22:23

Well, normally we take someone's body away This is usually what I do is you take their body weight, and you convert it to kilograms, so So say you have our 150 pound person divided by 2.2 is the conversion to get kilograms. And I think that comes out to something like 72 kilograms, the range for protein is usually 6.6 to 1.0 grams of protein per kilogram. Okay, so once you've kind of figured out what your weight is, then you can kind of see, but for an average person, somewhere between 50 to 65 grams of protein a day alkazi, we need a little bit more as we age when you're older, with 1.2 grams of protein.


Unknown Speaker 23:10

So and how do you feel about protein? animal protein versus plant protein?


Unknown Speaker 23:16

I like on both? Yeah, yeah, I think there are certain populations when we're thinking about eating a strict vegetarian diet or a vegan diet, adolescence, people, you know, young people moving into their early adulthood, those are some pretty critical development time. So being and certainly early capacity to really animal protein really does provide a very bioavailable form of B vitamins, particularly b 12. And so you really just need to track and follow those patients a little bit closer when they're doing a full vegetarian diet because plant proteins are are good and do provide a lot of good proteins for us, but we just want to make sure that that patient is being followed a little bit closer.


Unknown Speaker 24:05

Okay, that's interesting. You say that too about the B vitamins because I do eat a lot of I'm not a vegetarian, but I eat a lot of vegetarian in my in my diet, like I don't eat, I don't eat a lot of meat protein, like I don't have meat protein with every meal. And then I was low. One of the things with my headaches was I was low in B vitamins. And so now I take a supplement for that a b 12. And also a B supplement. I did read that about people that were vegetarians or vegans that they did need to be careful about their their B's,


Unknown Speaker 24:41

especially vegans, because some vegetarians eat eggs, so or even but the vegans Yeah, I have a question around the B vitamins. I'm always curious.


Unknown Speaker 24:54

I have tons of questions.


Unknown Speaker 24:56

But um, you know, because I've been vegan For a little bit vegetarian, and now I'm kind of back I eat mostly vegetarian flexitarian. I'm a flexitarian. I like that word. But I'm very careful when I do eat meat where that comes from, and I don't typically eat it out at all. If I do eat any meat, it's usually fish or steak vegetarian. Yeah. But as far as you know, being an athlete, I didn't really have any problems with being tired or anything, but I did watch my vitamins, my B vitamins when I was vegan, but I'm curious because they say that you can, like I've always had a question like, Okay, well, if we need to supplement that, that to me doesn't mean that it is an appropriate diet if we have to supplement with something. But they say that you can get your B vitamins from plants somehow how they photosynthesize is that am I saying this? Do you know what I'm talking about? I think that you can get most of them from plants. Okay,


Unknown Speaker 25:51

there are a lot of them. But But as far as the whole supplementing thing, as an athlete, you're pushing it you're pushing your body passed yet what may be a normal consumption would give you a particularly at that higher training level, you are going to burn through the vitamins and vitamin C to because it's like anti oxidant. You know, we have high metabolism is creating oxidative stress in the body. And so okay, the C is going to help with that. But with the higher need that you have, I could see where you would need to


Unknown Speaker 26:27

Yeah, I did. But I always had a question too, just as not being an athlete just being on a vegan diet, like you know, cuz I go through these, let me try this for a little bit and see how my body responds to it. Because not everybody responds the same way. And I found out it was better for me not to be on a vegan diet, but just fizzy a lot. My body just was doing things not lots and lots of


Unknown Speaker 26:51

things and


Unknown Speaker 26:53

a lot of the good sources a


Unknown Speaker 26:54

lot of the good sources and


Unknown Speaker 26:56

I love every single one of them, but man, I was just walking around it was awful. And I was there were times I was really embarrassed to more socially to socially it does. One final thing was in the clinic.


Unknown Speaker 27:16

It


Unknown Speaker 27:19

was so funny.


Unknown Speaker 27:22

Why do we think that's so funny? Why is it always so funny,


Unknown Speaker 27:25

natural thing to talk about it?


Unknown Speaker 27:28

Everybody does it?


Unknown Speaker 27:29

I know. That's


Unknown Speaker 27:29

why


Unknown Speaker 27:31

they get embarrassed when I don't


Unknown Speaker 27:33

know why we get embarrassed about it. Everybody. Does it. Just talk that way. I think I always say I don't I don't do that.


Unknown Speaker 27:40

Yeah, lady.


Unknown Speaker 27:43

Well, I'll be in a house with Forman.


Unknown Speaker 27:45

Oh, gosh, you can imagine.


Unknown Speaker 27:49

You're like police.


Unknown Speaker 27:52

Yes. I totally forgot where I was going with that train of thought. Yes. Um, so I finally anyways, I kind of introduced some more animal protein back into my diet. But the B vitamins like still, like I've heard that you have to supplement or people should supplement they advise you to supplement if you're a vegan. And I'm like, even if you're not an athlete, like for me, like why I don't feel like you should have. I like supplements. But if I might getting something from my food,


Unknown Speaker 28:25

maybe it's a recommendation just based on kind of the average person. Maybe I maybe that's what I make a guess I don't I have only had a few vegan patients. Yeah. And they were pretty educated. Yeah. about their diet. Yeah. So but it goes back to you know what you said, Everyone is so different. Yeah, our genetics and where we came from, you know, where someone in Scandinavia may do really well with this type of diet, someone from the African continent may really do something different. And those genes while they we evolve, it's not as fast as I think maybe it is.


Unknown Speaker 29:04

I know there's a guy and he grew up vegetarian. And he's vegan now. But he's a bodybuilder. And he's never had I don't know if he's had eggs, but I know he has never had meat. And he's a


Unknown Speaker 29:18

was that documentary? We're working on that documentary on Netflix about the athletes that are vegan. That was really good.


Unknown Speaker 29:26

What was the name of that?


Unknown Speaker 29:27

I don't know that. Um,


Unknown Speaker 29:28

yeah, it's a listen to the first segments and turned it on. I can't remember but it's a it's a documentary. And it's, it's about these high performers, these athletes and all of them are vegan. They just talk about what they eat and how you know how it helps with their performance. And obviously, they're getting a well rounded, they're very educated and they're getting a well rounded, balanced diet. So I think that helps but it's interesting. I can't remember


Unknown Speaker 29:55

the name of it, but they got some of the guys in that that documentary because they But if they were vegan, their sperm count went up, I think,


Unknown Speaker 30:02

Oh, those were the football players. Yeah, they were funny. They were they were laughing.


Unknown Speaker 30:08

Yeah. I think it was the sperm count went up.


Unknown Speaker 30:11

Yeah. They got all. They were like giggly about that when they told them that. Yeah. So also, let's talk about gardening. So you you like you have a garden? Yes.


Unknown Speaker 30:25

And I love it. My grandmother raised six kids on the farm, my grandfather here, no, in West Texas, okay. And so I always grew up around garden, Farm, and then when she moved from the farm and had a garden, and I loved getting my hands in the dirt, in fact, when I was going through that whole period of evaluating my diet, and I completely redid our front yard and made all these garden beds. And I think that is actually part of what helped me get better, having my hands in the dirt. And really, because the soil has its own amazing ecosystem, and I think being active in that and also being outside and having the vitamin D, because vitamin D is very important for autoimmune, that you have a good level of right and do not have any deficiency. And so it was just always something I wanted to have as therapeutic garden gardening as therapeutic create is creating a lot more fails in my garden than


Unknown Speaker 31:28

when I've heard that as Okay, I've heard that from many people that are Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 31:33

I just keeps your app. Yeah. And Mother Nature keeps teaching me and occasionally something will grow and bloom and tastes delicious. The phrase, you know, was sad that we had recently here in Houston, but yesterday I was putting new soil and compost and got some new things ready to plant. So I do enjoy it. I'm on the Education Committee for urban harvest, which is a wonderful organization. I don't know a lot of listeners are familiar with it. But tons of resources allow to learn how to garden they have and they have a farmers market. They do the farmers last every Saturday from eight to 12 rain or shine. Where is it? It is on westheimer at


Unknown Speaker 32:19

Oh, it's the way it seems to be east side and then they do okay. Yeah. Okay.


Unknown Speaker 32:25

I have to check it out.


Unknown Speaker 32:26

Between like St. Luke's Methodist Church in St. JOHN. Okay.


Unknown Speaker 32:31

So okay, it's


Unknown Speaker 32:32

a big parking lot. Tons of ranchers produce a lot of prepared food. So if you're not a big cook, and you just want to go make up some food, and juices, spices, probiotics, it's loaded


Unknown Speaker 32:49

in there, so I haven't been to that one. So


Unknown Speaker 32:51

yeah, I used to go to East Side all the time. But you know, it's hard because I run in the mornings and on Saturday mornings and so it's hard for me to get there. I usually like to go first thing if I yeah, because I do so I do sell out. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 33:04

there's a couple other good markets. There's one that started on Sundays every other Sunday in the rice village.


Unknown Speaker 33:11

They used to have on on Tuesdays.


Unknown Speaker 33:14

Yes, but it's not it's not associated with the same rabbits. It's now on every other Sunday. So same group that does there's one in the heights at six or white like white oak. I can't remember what that street turns into and heights Boulevard. Okay. Do


Unknown Speaker 33:30

you know that's where I got Finn was at the farm. The rice rice farmers market? I didn't know that. Are


Unknown Speaker 33:34

you sure you told me that? I


Unknown Speaker 33:35

don't. Yeah, I was running around Rice University and I looked over and independent rescue rescuer was there and he was in a cage.


Unknown Speaker 33:44

Oh, it was like,


Unknown Speaker 33:46

Oh my gosh, that terrier faces so cutely. So I ran over there. But it was rice right? And now it was


Unknown Speaker 33:54

Yeah, so they were having that I wanted to check that one out too. That they were


Unknown Speaker 33:57

happy like it's not as Big East sides nice. The east side has everything yeah and then some and then some


Unknown Speaker 34:04

Yeah, things you didn't know you need it and I know that in my bag.


Unknown Speaker 34:07

Yeah, Saturday


Unknown Speaker 34:09

they'll have music there sometime. Yeah, okay.


Unknown Speaker 34:11

What so what can I do you have everything like all kinds of vegetables in your garden.


Unknown Speaker 34:16

Like right now all that I had had before the free was kale and collard greens, okay, which is good because I love both of those. I love calcium and magnesium. We forget that leafy greens have minerals. So those are good, but now I'm I'm planting tomatoes, green beans, cucumbers and squash. Okay,


Unknown Speaker 34:41

I mean, that was one of my questions like what actually like this time of year like should you be planting and those are Yes. So there's a great


Unknown Speaker 34:48

talk for performers and they'll go until it gets pretty hot tomatoes don't like it just as hot as okay you know, we kind of have warm season and then we have hot scorching season Yeah. And then we have warm season again.


Unknown Speaker 35:05

Yeah, yeah.


Unknown Speaker 35:06

And you can do those same things in warm season one as in


Unknown Speaker 35:09

Oh okay.


Unknown Speaker 35:10

Okay, but yeah it's easy to grow those things


Unknown Speaker 35:14

okay hard okay I tried to I did really well with like container yes I did like tomatoes and then I did a lot of herbs great and that was great because I hated going to the grocery store and you know you get those big bundles and then they don't last in the US I felt bad like all of these herbs going bad but I haven't really planted anything lately here so I wanted to get back into at least doing the herbs and maybe like a small tomato plant Yes, I tried to Alon tree that was potted and I ended up killing that unfortunately I go through my work of the same thing where some things I'm really good at and then some things just they just don't make it like what was yours that you had that did make it cilantro oh my god he didn't he didn't grow


Unknown Speaker 36:03

I just if I can grow cilantro if I can grow chives and


Unknown Speaker 36:09

I use a lot of parsley parsley


Unknown Speaker 36:11

and cilantro those three if I can I go through them


Unknown Speaker 36:15

yeah so much well their annual so you need to keep you know after offseason replanning Oh okay, and and it just as a short season


Unknown Speaker 36:23

short season


Unknown Speaker 36:24

I couldn't even get it to do you know that in the freeze my basil died and my house? Well, it was really cold. died


Unknown Speaker 36:32

in my house. Wow, was Tinder too cold.


Unknown Speaker 36:35

So yeah, one time I bought I can't remember what I thought it was it was supposed to be some kind of an herb and it started growing. And I was like that is not an herb and it turned out to be a jalapeno pepper plant. Wow. Which was great cuz I had all these peppers. But it was so funny because I think I thought it was a basil plant because I you know, I didn't know it, but I think it was it would have had a tag on it that said basil, but it wasn't there. When it started growing. I was like, that's not basil. But I was like, it's some kind of pepper. I don't know what and then it ended up being jalapeno pepper. And it grew really great. And I had these jalapeno peppers. And I wasn't expecting but I know a lot of people, even some of my friends have gotten into cooking and also gotten into the gardening like trying to, you know, at least with herbs are


Unknown Speaker 37:26

a great place to start. That's


Unknown Speaker 37:27

gonna ask your name. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 37:29

those are the


Unknown Speaker 37:30

three ways the book of five. What does that square foot garden? Yes. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 37:35

I don't have it. But I've seen it.


Unknown Speaker 37:37

It's been around for a long time. I my dad actually gave it to me a long time ago. And then I ended up member when I went through the decluttering. And my books and I just


Unknown Speaker 37:47

got rid of that one.


Unknown Speaker 37:48

I got rid of that door. I've ordered it again. There's a new edition out but it's all about square foot garden. It's


Unknown Speaker 37:54

great for the city. Oh, yes. It's


Unknown Speaker 37:56

perfect. Yeah.


Unknown Speaker 37:57

Okay, I'll have to I have to read that.


Unknown Speaker 38:00

So if someone wanted to start a garden, because I know the listener that suggested this, she just started to what are some good tips on growing some good plants or the best vegetables? I know you mentioned some of them. It's not hard, you


Unknown Speaker 38:15

just have to decide I'm going to try it and just expect maybe that things don't always work out. Don't. That's good.


Unknown Speaker 38:24

That's a good point. That's kind of like


Unknown Speaker 38:25

don't give up like don't like throw in the towel, you know? Yes.


Unknown Speaker 38:30

And I think container gardening is good. As long as you are going to be pretty good about watering. Okay, remember to water because you don't have the ground obviously in a raised bed, keep it moist and watered. So that's good. But if you have a raised bed, then you just need to start with some good soil. Okay, and you can buy back compost at any of the really good nursery nursery.


Unknown Speaker 38:56

What kind of like what do you say good soil, like what do you recommend? Because there's so many out there and I that's one of the problems I have when I go to the store. I'm not really I see these different soils and one says they do this and another one does that. So I'm like what's just a good general like


Unknown Speaker 39:12

coil compost is starting to just ask for a bag of compost. And, and organic is better. Okay, there's several different brands out there, that that are going to be organic that are going to be rich in nutrients. Uh huh. I also really do like something called micro life. It's a kind of a fertilizer, it's food for the soil and for the organisms, okay, you have living organisms in that compose, and you want them to continue. It's that one ecosystem that we kind of talked about earlier. And then you just find the plants that you


Unknown Speaker 39:45

like, okay,


Unknown Speaker 39:46

so any of the good bead stores, the ones close in by me, I live over by the heights, Wabash. Their staff is so knowledgeable and they can you can just go in and say I just want to start over Tell me what I need to do. Oh, that's I do. And there's a good feed store on Main near 45. And they're super helpful there. They have lots of good information. So really just finding a good place your Home Depot, Lowe's, maybe not as much information, right,


Unknown Speaker 40:18

but your local kind of smaller feed store, the people will and nurse realizes Yeah, they can help. They can definitely Okay, I saw at, you know, Costco is always in tune to what is in demand. And I was in there the other day, and they actually had these ready made garden beds. One was just a wooden garden bed, and the other one was actually a self watering one. And I was like, Wow, this is so cool. But they are, you know, they know that it's in demand that people are wanting to do more gardening. And so they do have these really nice, raised already made garden beds. And I think the one that was self Warden was on wheels. So you could even move it around. So I just thought that was really nice. And I was I was thinking I was gonna put that I only have a space, but it wasn't cool. Yeah, I just saw it. They just had it. So now I'm interested to see if they're actually going to be out of them. Because they, you know, usually the stuff that they get, like moves through their product quickly. But I've never seen these garden beds before at Costco. And so now they have them. So obviously, the demand is, is out there,


Unknown Speaker 41:27

I think. Yeah, I think the demand is there. Right. I know Darren COVID. We we talked and I was looking for seeds. I


Unknown Speaker 41:34

know, I know, one of my go twos is Johnny seeds. And and that online. Yes. Yeah. And a friend I was talking to last week was telling me that only certain days, are they selling to consumers? Because the rest of the time because they do provide commercials to to these other urban farms and small farms, because they lost unless they had a big greenhouse operation, then they lost so much. Yeah.


Unknown Speaker 42:02

So yes. So much. Yeah. The other thing that I found interesting, and I don't know if you know anything about this, but they have these like hydroponic indoor gardens that I've been seeing popping up everywhere. And some of them look really nice. They're they're vertical, and they have the lighting system with them. Some of them already, you can hook them up for watering, and some of them are really attractive. And I was talking to Sheri, I was like, you know, this is interesting with like, home design and kitchen design. Like you could actually design an area where someone could have their indoor indoor garden. I think that could be like a new thing. Yeah. And I started a little niche.


Unknown Speaker 42:44

I love it, I would do it,


Unknown Speaker 42:45

I would do it too.


Unknown Speaker 42:47

I think it's a good idea. I think that, you know, especially for like this listener, someone who's really just wanting to get started, I think an indoor hydroponic system is good. I mean, it has more benefits than just what you harvest because see this and you know, wellness design, how much that improves your environment. But I think on a larger scale, I do have some concern about hydroponic farming. Okay, you know, when we talk about farming today, we think mostly about conventional farming, that's mono crop, meaning they're only growing corn or they're only growing wheat or soy, but but those kinds of systems are really depleting the soil, you know, over over over farms, okay. And so by rotating crops and something, a form of agriculture called regenerative agriculture, where the soil health is the number one priority for the farm, and it's not just you know, growing kale, but it's growing a variety of vegetables and fruits, and livestock and bees


Unknown Speaker 43:57

ends together.


Unknown Speaker 43:58

Yes, it's the system, okay. And all those things work well together. Okay. And so that becomes really more of this not only an environmental impact that farming has, but also around social justice because they're concerned about living wages for the people working on the farm and and that comes back to why we should be shopping at our farmers market, and why we should really be supporting local growers. It's a much bigger thing. You know, in places like Japan and Shanghai, they've had hydroponic farming for a while and those are places where land is limited limited. Okay. So in some places, those things are going to weigh in to how things are produced. But when we have some at the farmers market, there are some great hydroponic growers. We have j s h makes these delicious microgreens


Unknown Speaker 45:00

They're so good. They're so good. And they're beautiful.


Unknown Speaker 45:03

Yes, they are on your salad or your height or your leg.


Unknown Speaker 45:07

And they're the when I saw them, I think at the East side, okay, and just their, their tent when you walk up. I mean, they were I think I'm think I think it's the same people, just trays and


Unknown Speaker 45:17

trays and trays, and it was just this green,


Unknown Speaker 45:21

beautiful


Unknown Speaker 45:22

moonflower farms have this beautiful lettuce and it's delicious. There's even a farmer, I think it's called vege out there not at the farmers market, but they supplied to hgb, our local here in Houston, something like 90,000 pounds of tomatoes a year. So it is a big scale operation. But what I'm concerned about is there, I think we're just still learning about the ecosystem and our soil. And what that does, not only for providing nutrition to our food, but for this whole system, how our animals benefit.


Unknown Speaker 46:02

Those are good point,


Unknown Speaker 46:03

I could see that I could see where Yes, I totally see that now that you say that talking about the soil and all the nutrients that are already in the soil, and then those nutrients are getting into the plants or the produce that are that are being grown there. And so if you're not having those nutrients, then you're not getting that same level, or maybe you're getting something else in the produce that you didn't want to have. And it's also the relation back


Unknown Speaker 46:29

that the plants give to the soil. Yeah, you know, there's an exchange that happens. So


Unknown Speaker 46:35

maybe have a little small hydroponic garden for fun. And but not like your main source of


Unknown Speaker 46:42

Yeah, these places like in Denmark is just enormous. And you know, it's this, all this artificial light. No, has been researched and studied to match, you know, a wavelength of the sun. And all the nutrients in the water have been measured to replicate. But there's always something that's missing.


Unknown Speaker 47:01

Yeah, but you missed the whole. Yeah, it's interesting.


Unknown Speaker 47:05

I do find them interesting, though. And I thought that they were really pretty. And I was thinking, well, maybe I'll start with like a, like a, like a herb, little herb garden, you know, just the ones that I use all the time. And do one of those, like just kind of right in the kitchen. And that way, you know, it's kind of easy, and I thought, well, maybe I'll just do something small like that. And the other thing that I like to grow is I haven't done it recently is green onions, because you can just chop those off and put those in the soil and they just grow like magic. You really don't have to do much to just wait, just wait. And then you can have you can have fresh, you know, green onions anytime you need them. minerals and minerals. Yeah.


Unknown Speaker 47:49

Are you familiar with farmhouse delivery?


Unknown Speaker 47:51

I've heard of it. So I use Yes, you do. And you like it? Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 47:53

I've used them for years.


Unknown Speaker 47:55

What's been in your share lately?


Unknown Speaker 47:57

Oh, well, I don't do the bundles anymore because it was too much for me. But I started out doing the bundles. Now I just kind of order all the cart now. I'll go in and that's what I do meet I usually get it from them. And it's it's all local Texas farms. But that's


Unknown Speaker 48:13

good. Those those kind of models I think are so good because there's so many of these small farms that that when you line up and have all these small farms you it's a it's a market it's a way for them to get out. Because, you know, now that we're having so many farmers markets in the city, it gets to be a lot for the farmers to have to show up.


Unknown Speaker 48:33

Yeah, all of them are guests. Yeah, yeah, that's


Unknown Speaker 48:35

true. Those are good.


Unknown Speaker 48:37

Yeah. I love it. They've been around for they started there in Austin. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker 48:40

so so Shauna brought us some fabric fried sauerkraut for us to try which I'm


Unknown Speaker 48:45

really excited about and we have to flip between the white and the red


Unknown Speaker 48:50

at Will you can pick which one you want, so I'll let you pay. Yeah, I think already know which one do you want, but so Yeah, I know. I know that Sherry was gonna want the red so I'm like she can have it does have a little bit of pepper. I didn't


Unknown Speaker 49:03

make it a little bit. Not real spicy, but it does have a little bit spice.


Unknown Speaker 49:08

This is more traditional. Okay, do that sounds good? flavor. Okay, but you have to let it sit till Sunday. Yeah, okay. It's


Unknown Speaker 49:16

not


Unknown Speaker 49:16

Yeah, I'm excited. I


Unknown Speaker 49:18

have not done their magic yet.


Unknown Speaker 49:19

Because bugs


Unknown Speaker 49:20

are messed up what other cuz I know you love cooking so much. So like, what are you some of your, like, favorite recipes that you'd like with some of your gardening and home garden or even things that you get at the farmers market? Like do you have any like really good, like, easy recipes?


Unknown Speaker 49:35

I was


Unknown Speaker 49:36

asking my husband about this when I saw that you might want a recipe and uh huh. I don't know I just you know when and I'll you know, have what I got at the market and then that's what I'll you know, try to make for the week. And so one thing, two things I was thinking of that that maybe your listeners not find it easy and I can send you the recipe if he does post it, but it's just cabbage and a carrot slaw boo but it's with coconut milk and it has some spice so it's a little bit spicy. A little bit creamy not not a traditional coleslaw, but you can have it as a side like if you made an instant pot pork loin for ended treaded, you know, like pulled pork with this slaw, or you can use it as a filling for fish tacos. Ooh, that sounds good.


Unknown Speaker 50:26

Or a collard wrap because it had all these colors. I


Unknown Speaker 50:30

thought about doing a color.


Unknown Speaker 50:33

I love colors, but I've never thought about doing a color. You have better than lettuce,


Unknown Speaker 50:38

Pat Greer's kitchen Have you ever eaten any of her love her now? I did too. She just her. The first ingredient on all of her led labels is made with love. She's fancy is antastic he's fantastic. She has a long history with urban harvests. She


Unknown Speaker 50:55

does she's all she's there every so


Unknown Speaker 50:56

she has these. It's all vegetarian. Okay, actually to be vegan. I think it's vegan. Okay. And there are these collard wraps and it's called fish taco. But she has these kelp crackers they okay and make it kind of that see flavor? Uh huh. And they're right it's wrapped in a collard green leaf and it's so good. So my color graphs don't compare to her. But that slaw is really good. Okay, yeah,


Unknown Speaker 51:21

I love colors I make them every year for it's my new year's day yeah


Unknown Speaker 51:25

shares to


Unknown Speaker 51:26

make color.


Unknown Speaker 51:28

We should eat them besides New Year,


Unknown Speaker 51:31

I know and I do and because I only thought about them for new years but then I started eating them because they started having them more in the grocery store like year round. And so I also started just kind of like stir frying them and trying to do other things with them. Just being a little bit more adventurous with the collars but I love them


Unknown Speaker 51:48

you know you can wrap them music


Unknown Speaker 51:51

and you put whatever you want and then


Unknown Speaker 51:52

it sounds great because the lettuce great break and sometimes we when you put stuff in it but the collards I think whatever is thicker would be perfect. can be a little chewing. Yeah, no, yeah, but


Unknown Speaker 52:02

that's good. Okay, yeah, I really like and this is coming up with the zucchini that's coming out soon. As soon as it's warming up, just like you're gonna peel. Take your vegetable peeler, just like you're gonna peel the zucchini off, but just keep peeling it and you just go all the way around until you have all these ribbons, okay of zucchini, put a little oil in your saute pan, and some garlic, a clover to a garlic and then just saute it and then add just a little bit of lemon zest and just kind of brightens it but it's a super quick and easy sign that is good fiber. It's just a good quick sounds good.


Unknown Speaker 52:45

Well, I know that you do a seasonal cooking. Yeah, and you know, in Chinese medicine, we always talk about eating within the seasons. So kind of wanted to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that. I


Unknown Speaker 52:54

think seasonal eating is very important for many different reasons health benefits, you know, with when you're eating what's in season, usually, it's also local, but it has more nutrition because it was harvested close to the time that you're going to eat it usually so can be some there have been some reports that say up to 45% more nutrition and seasonal local food. So having having that is a good thing. It has a health health benefits to just variety in your time. Because if you're changing, if you're following the seasons, you're not eating the same food all